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Local DB option please!

  1. 9 years ago
    Z

    zyg0tic

    15 Mar 2015

    Hi. So I've decided I do want persistence for my mission, so I can restart it and not lose all the progress. However, the War Room is problematic... Frequent internal server errors, saying "Sorry." a lot. Why cant we just have a local DB option? It says because messing around with database software is a hassle - well so is War Room so whats the problem with a hasslesome local DB when the remote DB is hasslesome too?

    I've followed the tutorial steps for getting my server connected to ALiVE War Room DB and it isnt working.
    Does it matter which computer the Alive.cfg is downloaded with?
    When editing the mission, does @AliveServer have to be enabled?

  2. Friznit

    15 Mar 2015 Administrator

    Supporting a bunch of local DB's that we have no control over is a lot more difficult for us than supporting a centralised DB that we can interrogate and problem solve. We worked this out the hard way with MSO.

    War Room is pretty solid if follow the setup instructions. You only need @aliveserver on the server box when running the mission. What other issues are you having and where are you seeing these internal server errors?

  3. S

    Spark

    3 Jul 2015

    I have this errors, after load mission screen map is showing and message lost connection with host.

    12:54:40 EPE manager release (0|0|0)
    12:54:40 EPE manager release (0|0|0)
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Error in expression <false>
    12:54:44 Error position: <false>
    12:54:44 Error Local variable in global space
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Error in expression <false>
    12:54:44 Error position: <false>
    12:54:44 Error Local variable in global space
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Error in expression <false>
    12:54:44 Error position: <false>
    12:54:44 Error Local variable in global space
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Global namespace not passed during: false
    12:54:44 Error in expression <false>
    12:54:44 Error position: <false>
    12:54:44 Error Local variable in global space
    12:54:45 Initializing Steam server - Game Port: 2302, Steam Query Port: 2303
    12:54:46 Connected to Steam servers

    The main post is this:
    http://alivemod.com/forum/1099-server-restart-on-load-mission-nitrado-net

  4. Tupolov

    15 Jul 2015 Administrator

    You need @Alive AND @ALiVEServer on your server.

  5. S

    Spark

    18 Jul 2015
    Edited 9 years ago by Spark

    I cant, a have this issue too:

    http://alivemod.com/forum/1099-server-restart-on-load-mission-nitrado-net/p2#p4000

  6. T

    thefinn

    18 Jul 2015
    Edited 9 years ago by thefinn

    Seriously?

    "Supporting a bunch of local DB's that we have no control over is a lot more difficult for us than supporting a centralised DB that we can interrogate and problem solve. We worked this out the hard way with MSO."

    Every single piece of web software out there pretty much uses a database as a backend - including this forum - which I'm guessing you didn't write.

    You're saying that for whatever reason, when people cannot use your software it's different to every other piece of software out there ?

    Sounds like bunkum.

  7. Friznit

    18 Jul 2015 Administrator
    Edited 9 years ago by Friznit

    Er....what?

  8. T

    thefinn

    18 Jul 2015

    @Friznit Er....what?

    TLDR?: The internet is made up of pieces of 3rd part software running on databases. Everyone seems to have coped just fine until now.

  9. Friznit

    18 Jul 2015 Administrator
    Edited 9 years ago by Friznit

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. Is this your round about way of saying please?

    Anyway, as I explained, our experience from supporting local DB's in MSO for several years shows that your assertion is demonstrably untrue for everyone, so we're sticking to our current plans for now.

  10. T

    thefinn

    18 Jul 2015
    Edited 9 years ago by thefinn

    @Friznit Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. Is this your round about way of saying please?

    People asked for an option for local DB citing "Frequent internal server errors, saying "Sorry." a lot.

    In this thread http://alivemod.com/forum/1199-what-features-we-would-like it was in fact the most asked for feature by everyone who replied.

    Pretty sure "please" was covered there and in the title of this thread already.

  11. Friznit

    18 Jul 2015 Administrator
    Edited 9 years ago by Friznit

    By all 3 of them, indeed. We have several thousand users on our War Room DB. I appreciate it's not ideal for everyone but given our available resources it is simply not on the list of priorities.

    Just a word of advice: being aggressively rude to volunteer dev teams really isn't going to make them want to help you out.

  12. T

    thefinn

    18 Jul 2015
    Edited 9 years ago by thefinn

    I hear the moon landing was a hoax. Calling that out isn't "aggressively rude" either.

    The entire internet runs on the notion you find unworkable. Calling that out, isn't being "aggressively rude".

    Neither is the line "Sounds like bunkum."

    Perhaps some thicker skin ?

    In fact "accept what I have to say just because I'm the one saying it" is an entitled attitude more akin to cult leaders (because control) than software development, perhaps you owe us an apology.

  13. Friznit

    18 Jul 2015 Administrator
    Edited 9 years ago by Friznit

    Whatever.

    No.

    Is that clear enough for you?

  14. T

    thefinn

    18 Jul 2015

    Good to see those clear minds at work.

  15. H

    highhead

    18 Jul 2015 Administrator

    OK, im sorry but...

    I for myself put in 4000 hours of my life to have some bigmouth telling me how the world spins?

    whats wrong with you...

  16. T

    thefinn

    18 Jul 2015
    Edited 9 years ago by thefinn

    @highhead OK, im sorry but...

    I for myself put in 4000 hours of my life to have some bigmouth telling me how the world spins?

    whats wrong with you...

    There's that entitled rudeness again, that you were so against. Who was rude to whom?

    We already worked out how the world spins apparently summed up by "Whatever." or perhaps as you say "the world is flat" ?

    "Supporting a bunch of local DB's that we have no control over is a lot more difficult for us than supporting a centralised DB that we can interrogate and problem solve. We worked this out the hard way with MSO."

    This was the reason given. Now you call me a bigmouth for refuting obvious bullshit ?

    The entire internet works on the exact basis you can't get working. I've put a lot more than 4000 hours into the internet buddy. And I know damned well if it can be saved remotely, it can be saved locally.

    Refute it if you want. I could really give a shit what a bunch of self entitled forum admins and modders think. Stroke your ego some more and tell us how the world spins.

    At least you're doing what you're good at then.

  17. S

    Spark

    18 Jul 2015

    keep calm, you must have empaty, to users with issues and to voluntary dev.
    About support local DB issues isn't necessary, only ask this because some gameservers are blocking external connections or i dont know.
    You can continue supporting War-room DB only, but insert a local DB feature too.

  18. SpyderBlack723

    18 Jul 2015 Moderator
    Edited 9 years ago by SpyderBlack723

    It is not a question whether having local db as an option is possible, the problem lies in all the work around it. They've got to do code changes, testing, tutorials, and support for everyone who chooses this as an option. Do you really think they wouldn't like to get rid of their monthly charges to host the remote DB? I'm sure they would love to not have to pay $65 a month. It's not as simple as just hitting the "Allow local db" button. There is a lot of work that goes into it and then after that, a whole new wave of people who want help trying to set it up. It's a lot easier for them to provide help and support with a remote db as opposed to everyone having their own local db. As Friznit said, they've experienced this before. You also have to look at the roadmap, they are very hard at work putting together support for a wide array of features that tons of people have requested. They aren't superheros, they aren't getting paid, they have lives of their own to worry about first. Just request it nicely and see where things go. We are lucky enough to have a mod with ALiVE's capabilities already, the least we could do is not harass the devs who give up thousands of hours to make it possible.

  19. Friznit

    18 Jul 2015 Administrator

    My patience ran out. Sensible constructive discussion is fine but this is getting unpalatable.

    Spyder - many thanks for explaining it in more detail. There seems to be some confusion between "technically feasible" and "supporting users setting up and running local db's".

    The official answer remains the same - yes, it's technically feasible and one day we'd like to develop a local DB option but right now, given the available dev time and other project priorities, it's not on the roadmap.

    Until then, there is the persistent database that we offer as a plug and play service via the War Room.

  20. Tupolov

    18 Jul 2015 Administrator
    Edited 9 years ago by Tupolov

    Just to chip in here.

    Finn, I didn't find your response particularly rude.

    The reasons we don't support local db are because

    1. Believe it or not there's lots of people incapable of setting up databases
    2. A lot of game hosting services don't provide dbs
    3. The effort to support people who can't admin MySQL was overwhelming with MSO
    4. Local DBs are often based around SQL and we didn't want to use a fixed scheme based DB due to the effort of updating schemas etc
    5. Some of the crew work for cloud companies, we wanted to go to the cloud
    6. Having persistence only require an http connection and a config file makes persistence accessible to everyone
    7. We wanted to offer a web based admin console for people to edit and update missions as well as have community stats
    8. We didn't want to support two DB approaches
    9. There's no developer who is around to do the SQL integration or other local DB
    10. When we want to change things - we don't need to update 1000 DBs, just ours.

    We honestly felt this approach was the best for ALiVE and we hope people respect that decision.

    Now as you can see a few quite blunt responses here shows the passion and effort some people have put in :) I hope this post explains things in more detail and is not considered bullshit reasons.

    We are looking at a possible file based local storage for certain things.

    Cheers,
    Tup

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